I will admit that I have an irrational negative reaction to the burka. I much prefer to see people's faces. However I have never had a discussion with a woman burka wearer so can speak with no great authority. I wonder how many of the deputies in the French National Assembly have ever spoken with a burka wearing woman?
However I am unhappy that there seems to be across Europe a concerted effort to prevent Muslim women hiding their faces, figures and sexuality in an unflattering material which conceals their identity.
This is so much at odds with modern Western European dress codes. I actually find it refreshing that some are prepared to reject that dress code. Frankly I find much that passes for modern dress offensive. I was chatting the other day with a Muslim man who explained that he rather his daughter was dressed in neqab (a headscarf) than "looking like a prostitute". Strong words, but always interesting to understand how we see one another in a diverse society.
The recent hot weather has underlined just how unpleasant others can look once clothes come off. Displaying tatty underwear and badly produced tattoos brings out the same irrational negative reaction as does the burka, but we can still see the faces.
The Apostle Paul makes it clear that he expects women "to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes". Her real dress it seems should be "with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God" (1 Timothy 2:9-10). The Apostle Peter makes a similar point (1 Peter 3:3,4).
Men's clothing seems to be more functional and less sexualised but we also have a responsibilty to dress in a way that reflects decency and propriety.
I hope in the UK we can take a much more relaxed attitude to the burka. I think the only issues that arise should be practical. For example I can't see that such face covering is appropriate in the class room or in some workplaces where interpersonal interaction is business critical.
As far as I can remember the very first ban on face covering to be imposed in modern times was at the old Daily Mirror building in Holborn. This was introduced after a gang posing as motorcycle couriers in face covering helmets entered the building and killed a security guard during a robbery. I gather some shopping centres place a ban on "hoodies" for the same reason. But they were mainly men. Let us keep a sense of proportion.
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Did the Apostle Paul or Apostle Peter have any fashion advice on dress restrictions for men?
Thanks Bob, I'm delighted you are taking an interest in scripture, we'll have you up at WWMC in just a few weeks time.
Peter says "clothe yourselves with humility" (1 Peter 5:5) and Paul advises us to "Put on the full armour of God", in fact there's nearly half a chapter's worth of advice! (Ephesians 6:11-18)
Your complacency is disappointing. When a muslim says that 'he'd rather his daughter was dressed in niqab (a headscarf) than "looking like a prostitute"' (niqab is almost total covering but without the eyes veiled and NOT a headscarf), he means that if a woman is NOT wearing a niqab or a burqa then she is dressed like a prostitute. You have not heard the whispers of 'whore' directed at many respectable western women. You have not seen the utter contempt with which muslim boys treat black female auxilliaries in a school. You have not seen a muslim toddler kick his mother, in a tantrum, without a hint of retribution. You have not been buried up to your breasts prior to being stoned to death. You have not been accused of adultery because you were raped. You have not been raped so that you can be 'converted' and married to a Muslim. You have not had your testimony held at half that of a mans in a trial. You have not been told how to vote by your husband in a BRITISH POLLING BOOTH IN BIRMINGHAM.
You do not understand that when this is not about possession and oppression - (has your wife or daughter/s read this nonsense?), it is about space and occupation. It is about saying that non-muslims will submit to sharia law.
You do not know what muslim women have to say about the burqa:
<http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-stand-up-against--the-burka-1975108.html.
In our culture, to hide the face is a threat. There is no way of knowing who is in there or what they intend. It may not even be a woman.
Your apparent liberalism is a craven capitulation to Islam. You are a dhimmi; a second-class citizen and a traitor to your country and your faith.
I think that you have been somewhat intemperate in your language, Mr. F. Monk !
I think that there is a failure to undestand that there are limits to tolerance. It is the amount of deviation that can be permitted before a society either ceases to function or changes beyond recognition. Tolerance is not always loving and is not the supreme virtue, even though many seem to think it is.
Every burka is a silent accusation that the non-wearing female is immodest, which is insulting to other women.
I agree with you that it is about oppression and/or islamification. It is the failure to understand the nature of Islam that allows many genuine Christians to give ground when they should not. It is not Christian or loving to permit people to believe a delusion.
A little honey with your medicine, Mr. Monk, would help.
The fact that what women wear is being debated by you guys, largely men, indicates that misogynist attitudes are not exclusive to Islam.
JDVH, have you pasted the link to miss yasmin a-b's article in my previous comment? Hardly misogynist. If women debate what men wear, is that sexist?
This debate is not simply about what women wear. It is about the oppression of women and the possesion of space for Islam.
Have you ever noticed how many burqa clad women are accompanied by men in western dress? Some men wear tradional garments but they are not all-encompassing.
Closing the debate down to western men won't stop muslim men being involved. They don't listen to women.
Finally, excluding anyone from a debate solely on the grounds of gender, is truly sexist.
Hoist by one's own petard, I think.
Misogyny and sexism are different things.
I think this thread portrays misogyny as it is a bunch of men debating what women should wear which implies that they want or expect power over those women.
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