It was interesting to read this clipping from a newspaper somewhere up north.We hear that
METHODIST churches across Calderdale are to merge in a nationwide shake-up.
The churches in the district are currently divided into four circuits. But under plans discussed at the Methodist Conference the 29 churches will now be brought together into one large group.
I must admit I wasn't aware that there was currently a "nationwide shake-up" (though there was some daft proposal to put our church in with the middle class eccentrics down in Selly Oak) so it was interesting to see how it was portrayed in the secular press.
The superintendent Minister Ian Coverdale makes a disarmingly honest statement which I'm sure was meant well but was hardly re-assuring:
"I don't think it will affect the average churchgoer greatly. It just affects how we organise ourselves. It's all just part of making ourselves more outward looking."
He then is quoted as citing reducing congregations and the dwindling Ministerial workforce.
But isn't that the whole point? We make changes but want to reassure the "average churchgoer" that there will be no change.
Sorry ladies and gentlemen, a dwindling customer base and uncertain resources would force any other business to ensure that customers, suppliers and other stakeholders knew that change was afoot and critical to the survival of the business.
It is time that the Methodist Connexion says to "the average churchgoer" that being "average" is no longer good enough.
Exceptional churches will win people for Christ. Exceptional churches will grow and encourage revival.
What is now an "average" Methodist Church with its 50 aging members and its falling income will just not survive.
I'm sure Ian Coverdale meant well and I hope this isn't seen as a personal attack but it is no part of leadership to reassure Christians that they can continue being "average churchgoers" and won't be affected by change.
Unless we take urgent action the "average Church goer" may soon meet the biggest change of all - closure
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10 comments:
"It is time that the Methodist Connexion says to "the average churchgoer" that being "average" is no longer good enough."
Amen to that!
How about some actual leadership from our 'leaders'?
I'm new to all this so please excuse this question... but at what point in history did Wesley's strict Methodist societies/church become the "we're all nice to each other, don't upset anyone, all routes lead to God so need to talk about Jesus, orthodox belief is an optional extra" thing that 3/4 of the church seems to be today?
I suspect it happened sooner than any of us realise form this vantage point in history. By the early 1800s various splinter groups were emerging such as the Bible Christians, the New Connexion and the Primitives.
Across the Atlantic this was made even more complex by the race issue.
What I think is new - and potentially lethal - is the increasing tendency of some Methodist Ministers to speak in terms which verge on the pagan "new age". But that is another story for another day.
Meanwhile not only are churches closing but millions of souls will be lost for eternity - and there seems so little burden on the part of the church in the west to meet that challenge.
Changing circuits feels a bit like re-organising the deck chairs on the Titanic.
"I suspect it happened sooner than any of us realise form this vantage point in history. By the early 1800s various splinter groups were emerging such as the Bible Christians, the New Connexion and the Primitives."
As I understand it the these groups later merged together to create what is now the Methodist Church in the UK. However I think all these groups would have held to Holy living, orthodox beliefs, Weslyan theology, the need to evangelise, etc.
What I meant in my question is how recent is the current trend which seems to downplay all of Methodisms distinctives? When did it become acceptable to say that all faiths lead to Heaven? Or that Holy living was too strict to ask of people?
Thanks TT.
You ask:
When did it become acceptable to say that all faiths lead to Heaven? Or that Holy living was too strict to ask of people?
I don't believe this to be the case. I really haven't heard anyone preach in such terms for many years, though I acknowledge there are some who certainly would say yes to the first point.
I think apathy, exhaustion combined with a thirty year dismissal of any "fresh expressions" of our Christian faith means that we have lost two, now three generations of people who would otherwise be worshipping in the Methodist Church as their natural home.
I think there's definitely a nationwide shake-up isn't there ? Regrouping for mission and all that. There might be quite a disconnect between district chairs and circuit superintendents on the issue, but circuit amalgamations are happening everywhere. There is definitely a nationwide plan to have larger circuits, less superintendents, and therefore more presybyters who would otherwise have been superintendents doing more mission oriented work.
How realistic it is is quite a different issue to whether such a plan exists.
Thanks Methodist Preacher.
You said:
"I really haven't heard anyone preach in such terms for many years, though I acknowledge there are some who certainly would say yes to the first point."
I wont name my church for obvious reasons but I have heard the following by three different preachers (one of them an ex-minister):
"I don't pray to God I experience it. God isn't something I think you can pray to. Instead I pray to Jesus."
"There's no real difference between Christians and Muslims"
"We have to reconsider whether there is really only one true faith" - when I spoke to the preacher afterwards they told me that all faiths lead to God.
I almost stopped being a methodist after this until I had a long talk with one of my ministers. They reassured me that this preaching was wrong and so I kept going but what got me was that the rest of local members were ok with it.
I'm glad for the local ministers who are excellent but they seem to going against the trend. I guess when I sk "when did it become acceptable?" I am asking acceptable for the members as well as the church leadership?
That's why I would love for Connexion or similar to come out and say what you said in the post. To lead the church rather than what appears to be managing the decline of it.
Thanks TT, I don't know where you live but if you live anywhere near Birmingham you'd be welcome at City Road Methodist Church (www.cityroad.org.uk)
You need to plug away, don't be discouraged.
Anyone who thinks and preaches that all faiths lead to God is clearly wrong. Each faith may have a glimmer of the truth (Jesus is mentioned in the Koran for example) but sometimes merely a glimmer of the truth can decieve.
God bless you.
That's why I would love for Connexion or similar to come out and say what you said in the post. To lead the church rather than what appears to be managing the decline of it.
I'm totally confused by these kinds of statements because - as someone previously "employed" as a British Methodist Minister - the need for change and for "fresh expressions" was constantly and regularly expressed. One simply couldn't get away from this subject. When I was a lay member of the British Methodist Church, the need for change was constantly and regularly expressed. So if people aren't hearing this, I honestly have to wonder whose "fault" it is - since we seem to be playing the blame game again in this post.
The fact of the matter is that institutions - any and all institutions - are very difficult to change. They are set up to get what they are getting and trying to "not get what you've always got" can be very difficult.
British Methodism, indeed much of institutional Christianity, needs solutions, not complaining. People need to try new initiatives with the best research and good intentions and they need to be allowed to make mistakes without having their Christian brothers and sisters jump down their throats. Clearly the old ways don't work; and that includes the "hit em over the head with our proselytizing" approach as well.
MP: thanks for your words of encouragement. I live nowhere nead Birmingham I'm afraid but if I'm ever in the area on a Sunday I'll be sure to come along for the service.
PamBG: I'm all for fresh expressions, but fresh expressions of the truth of Christianity of which you can hardly call the quotes above an example of.
Prosletysing as a strategy is not what I suggested in my post. However when I speak to my Muslim friends they have no problem saying that Jesus was a man, a prophet and not the Son of God. They also have no problem in saying that Christianity is not true. When I discuss with them I feel no obligation to water down my beliefs and I explain why Jesus is the Son of God and Christianity is true. (If Christianity is true then by definition Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, etc. must be wrong. ) . Far from seeing it as prosletysing my friends se it as an enjoyable debate. They are hoping to convince me and I am trying to convince them but we respect one another which I think is how it should be.
As a side note can I say that every church which is growing or keeping a large congregations in my area are churches which hold to the truth of Christianity (you might call them Evangelical) whilst those that are shrinking are those who have decided to drop out any 'difficult' parts of the faith such as Christianity being the true faith. The annecdotal evidence is that maintaining historical Christian beliefs, even if done in a new way, is somehow linked to the growth of the church whilst dropping them seems to be linked to the churches decline.
TT, I'm actually of a mixed view on this. On the one hand, I agree that there is a lot bad theology going around but I've seen it on both ends of the "liberal / conservative" scale.
For example, I've seen someone who considered themself an arch-conservative deny the Trinity because, according to this person, "The Trinity is not in the bible". And, on the other side of the coin, I have met one retired minister - and it's the only ONE I've ever met - who had lost faith in God. (That whole "problem of God" thing seems to be the problem of a generation which is now dying out because it was a particularly modernist problem.)
I have also seen people attack others for being "non-Christian" because they found things like Labyrinths and prayer-beads helpful in praying.
It just seems to me that when we go out heretic hunting, we find heretics in every corner. And I sometimes wonder how genuine those heretics are or if it's in the perception. If a person wants a war, they will find enemies no matter what. I find that problematic. And it does get rather exhausting being judged constantly.
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