As an old fashioned and unreconstructed socialist from the Methodist non-conformist tradition I am often told that I should realise the the Class War is over. Even Tony Blair himself has personally ticked me off on this score.
So I was interested to hear from...let's call is a "normally reliable source".... that among the students of Leeds, the Class War, is still underway.
There are two universities in Leeds: The University of Leeds, founded in the the nineteenth century as a challenge to "the exclusivity of Oxford and Cambridge universities, which were predominantly for the Anglican aristocracy and gentry."
Alas this radical tradition is forgotten when students from The University of Leeds meet students from the less prestigious and more recently created Leeds Metropolitan University.
Apparently they chant:
"Your Dad works for my Dad, Your Dad works for my Dad
La-la-la-la. La-la-la-la,
Your Dad works for my Dad, Your Dad works for my Dad
La-la-la-la. La-la-la-la."
It is heartening to know that the are still battles to be fought in the Class War.
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6 comments:
I don't think that's about class at all. I went to university in Manchester, where the Manchester Metropolitan University was the former polytechnic, and was considered mickey mouse by those of us at UMIST. We didn't think much of Owens either, even though they were intricately linked anyway, and have since merged.
So, associates of tradtional universities look down on modern upstarts. Move along, nothing to see....
Simon, the very fact that they chant "Your Dad works for my Dad" shows that it's not to do with Leeds Met being a "modern upstart", but that Leeds Uni students assume that their families are in a "higher class" than the Leeds Met families.
For Leeds, read Sheffield, on this page
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/7306960.stm
Or how about this page from the Independent newspaper, discussing Nottingham
Once the worthy circle is circumnavigated, there is another dubious element I should have preferred to steer away from: the unworthy. Unfortunately this lot drag down everyone's reputation. At my university, the Snob Squad became slightly over-excited at being a member of one of the older institutions. This unfortunate trait was exhibited most strongly in the run-up to varsity sporting events with the local ex-poly which was now very much an established university. Posters would appear not only around campus but the whole area, declaring that "Your dad works for my dad," and "I'm going to be your boss."
My university was full of people from all "classes" (none of whom could care less about that) who all thought the poly was mickey mouse. So rest assured, like the girl from Nottingham, I just don't buy it.....
Simon I think we have stumbled on a completely inappropriate, distasteful, and unwanted piece of class bigotry.
Your comments demonstrate just how unpleasant some people from Leeds, Sheffield and Nottingham can be. It doesn't excuse them.
No doubt the former polytechnics you mention have got a higher proportion of Black and ethnic minority students?
Hello David.
This is an interesting discussion. Forgive me if I seem to be rambling here. I can only speak about Manchester directly, as that's where I went.
UMIST (which I attended), which at the time was affiliated with Owens (the Univeristy of Manchester), was a traditional "red brick" university, as was Owens as well. They shared some teaching resources, and had reciprocal access to libaries and the like.
The Manchester Metropolitan University was the "former polytechnic".
UMIST and Owens, both having considerable histories, had considerable prestige as well. Prestige being measured by things like employment desirability and ratings.
Partly because of this, both UMIST and Owens attracted very substantial numbers of overseas students. This being in the early 90s when there were still grants and fees paid for UK students, the foreign students were a considerable source of income. Regardless, there were a very considerable number of ethnic minorities.
The Metropolitan Univeristy at that time lacked the prestige, and certainly didn't attract the same overseas contingent.
However, the derision wasn't restricted to the "former polytechnic". As I mentioned, Owens and UMIST were closely associated (and have since merged as a single institution), and both had big reputations. However, in the toilets of the libray at Owens, there was a famous piece of graffiti above a toilet roll dispenser, which simply read "Owens degrees, please take one".
No serious analysis of the two institutions would have justified this kind of position - but serious analysis is not what it's about.
Why, in the school that I went to that shared part of it's campus with another one, were there regular fights between the neighbouring schools ? Because our school was better of course.
Why support Birmingam City and not Aston Vila ? Why support Man City and not Man Utd ? Why support West Ham and not Chelsea ? (I'm deliberatly leaving Tottenham Hotspur out of this list)
If you have to ask, you've missed the point - "our" institution is obviously better. If the other one were better, we would naturally be a member of that one instead. That's true of schools, univeristies, football clubs and ...
Since this blog is linked to Methodism, how many different Christian denominations are represented within a few miles radius of City Road ? More than enough, I'd warrant, for Christianity's detractors to sneer about how none of us can agree what we believe in ? On Friday, you mentioned this "very respectable and fast growing Black led church." Why do blacks need their own church ? Are there some less respectable churches ? Have you received communion at a Catholic church recently ?
So in summary, I think people will naturally prefer that which they belong to, otherwise they would belong to something else. And as Christians we don't often look much better.
Some interesting articles recently by the way. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Simon, I think this chant has an all too real and unpleasant edge.
Were it set in a racial context it would be seen for what it is.
As to your comments about differing denominations within a few miles of my own church. Yes we have differences of doctrine but we don't -not these days at least - run round shouting belittling chants at one another.
You mention themy use of the phrase "Black led churches". Yes it really is tragic that on arrival many of our immigrant communities felt unwelcome and unwanted within the mainstream churches. It wasn't always racial - sometimes it was theological with mainstream churches unable to grasp the charismatic and pentecostal expressions of faith used by our new neighbours.
Finally you ask about communion in a Catholic Church. I have within the last ten years attended our local Catholic church and gone forward for a blessing. I know that it would have been difficult for us both to have taken the mass.
I would not want to embarrass my hosts.
However I have taken the Lord's Supper in situations where Catholics had been present.
I am opinionated, but not, I hope, a bigot.
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